home improvement turns into science fair projects?

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JR.
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:30 pm

terkio wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:02 pm
True watt measurement might make a difference especially to see about a motor idling versus running under load.
an option I do not expect when buying the cheapest model I can find...

JR
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:10 am

Who knows in this world of near no cost micro processing power and software.

Their specifications are vague if any.
Some mentions "power factor", saying nothing more than these two words about it.
Power factor makes sense for motors but doesn't make sense for most power electronics used nowadays, so I have doubts the sellers know what they are talking about.
The mention of "power factor" is no guarantee, the product is able to truly measure watts.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by mediatechnology » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:29 am

I estimate the PF of my house to be about 0.74 when the Air Conditioner is running with a current phase angle of -42°.
With the AC off its close to unity.

I determined this by VA measurement and compared it to the real-time SmartMeter data. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=408&p=5007#p5007

The SmartMeter relies upon the instantaneous product of V*I (using DSP) so it calculates Watts, not VA.
In the summer months with AC running almost 24/7 the difference is huge - glad I'm buying Watts not VA.
https://ka-electronics.com

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:36 am

I am more concerned about smoothing of the display result, and not very optimistic... I expect it to at least be steady when pushing the full stream of water. Jumping around with partial flow may be all the indication I need.

The new bigger sump pump makes quick work of accumulated water... What used to take hours with the old 1/4 HP pump pushing water through 3/4" garden hose, now takes minutes with 1/2 HP and 1.25 discharge hose....

I need to not over-think this, but that is what I often do. :lol:

JR
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:41 pm

The new bigger sump pump makes quick work of accumulated water... What used to take hours with the old 1/4 HP pump pushing water through 3/4" garden hose, now takes minutes with 1/2 HP and 1.25 discharge hose....
Good move.
Twice the power, 2.8 times more hose section.
Plus a better efficiency, I presume.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:49 pm

terkio wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:41 pm
The new bigger sump pump makes quick work of accumulated water... What used to take hours with the old 1/4 HP pump pushing water through 3/4" garden hose, now takes minutes with 1/2 HP and 1.25 discharge hose....
Good move.
Twice the power, 2.8 times more hose section.
Plus a better efficiency, I presume.
The old 1/4HP pump has a 9A label on it, the new 1/2 HP measures 2.4A actual... probably not apples to apples, but it appears more efficient.

I recall the old pump extension cord feeling a little warm after extended use... now not so much.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:08 pm

In a pleasant surprise the faulty float switch I returned for repair already arrived back...

The service ticket says it failed the relay test? It looks like they sent me a new unit... it does not smell like the one I sent back. :lol:
IMG_20200306_151314609.jpg
This time I did a better job attaching the float assembly to the pump with worm gear screw clamps... I didn't have one long enough, but got er dun with two in series.

The replacement float level controller now turns on, but does not turn off... :oops: (The first one turned off and stayed off.)

I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt and adjust it's float height tomorrow to ride a little higher up on the pump housing into a hopefully better zone for pump shut on "and" off operation. I can tolerate a little water to stop the noise, and failure to cycle off.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:22 pm

IMG_20200307_105110475.jpg
The drama is slowly winding down for now...

Yesterday the float level was set too low and didn't turn off... This morning I raised it up and inch and got it to turn off in a bucket, but down in my crawl space it perpetually short cycled as water kept flowing into the well hole... I raised it up another inch or two (higher than in that picture), and now it doesn't constantly short cycle but doesn't run very long when it does turn on...

@ terkio: you can relax about mud being trapped in the bottom of the float housing, the floor of the housing is tapered in a conical shape that will flow mud away and out of the housing with falling water.

Never content I am already thinking of an obvious design improvement. It would be nice to have some hysteresis so it runs less frequently. The controller already has a 10 second turn off delay but that isn't much

The FAB sheet claim to fame is dual float switches, so the second higher one serves as a back up if the first doesn't switch??

I am less confident in the benefit of that but would like to be able to have the high float level turn on the sump pump, and then have the low float level turn off the pump... this couple inches of level hysteresis would reduce the number of cycles I experience.

For now it is working, so I will try to stop thinking about it for a while. :lol:

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:23 pm

I had a look at the specs. Their second float bit is non sense to me, why not a third one in case the second one fails...😁

Hysteresis is a worthwhile improvement. Here two floats would make sense.
As said, one to cut in the other to cut off.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am

Day 2 of cybernetic sump pump control.

I cannot hear it cycling on and off, but the crawl space is now dry, down to the float level, and I can see where water is coming out the end of the discharge hose over time.

I do not know how many cycles the relay switching the motor is rated for. Apparently with continuous operation 1/2 HP is vastly over capacity for moving water flow from my crawl space, especially a couple days after the last rain.

---

Yesterday when I first had the float level set too low and was getting near continuous cycling, I think I was getting a back flow situation, where water pumped up into the discharge hose drained back down into the well hole when the pump turned off... they make back flow preventers, but I managed that old school by elevating the hose near the inlet end so the majority of the water flows out the correct direction when gravity is in control.

I still like the idea of incorporating some hysteresis, but for now it is working adequately so I can leave it alone to see how long it works properly.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

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