A good friend recently had a horror show trying to play his stereo program through a large convention hotel PA...(sounded like crap).
He gave me a frantic phone call at the 11th hour and I got him through by suggesting he just drop one of his stereo sides and run mono..
But now I'm thinking it would be hip to mix his original files as L+R and L-R on the stereo tracks. Then after the fact either use the L+R mono feed, or derive stereo with a simple matrix...
This seems a lot like the popular M-S boxes... Any thoughts?
I am trying to KISS. My friend is more of a recording guy than live sound guy...
JR
simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
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- mediatechnology
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Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
So what made it sound like crap?
In that setting mono, or near mono would be my first choice.
A lot of modern stuff is mixed too wide particularly in the low end.
Or it contains out-of-polarity elements which have no L+R at all.
When mono'd they disappear.
The Studer 90° Filter is something that has piqued my interest: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1055
There was a sim of this circuit at GroupDIY: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62 ... #msg797074
The 90° filter might make a better mono than L+R.
I've heard a lot of stuff in background music situations recently that might have benefited from it.
The Width controller might be an option too. https://www.ka-electronics.com/kaelectr ... _Width.htm
In that setting mono, or near mono would be my first choice.
A lot of modern stuff is mixed too wide particularly in the low end.
Or it contains out-of-polarity elements which have no L+R at all.
When mono'd they disappear.
The Studer 90° Filter is something that has piqued my interest: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1055
There was a sim of this circuit at GroupDIY: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62 ... #msg797074
The 90° filter might make a better mono than L+R.
I've heard a lot of stuff in background music situations recently that might have benefited from it.
The Width controller might be an option too. https://www.ka-electronics.com/kaelectr ... _Width.htm
Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
I wasn't there, but the union guys were taking the audio feed from a 1/8" headphone jack.
that was my speculation and why I suggested he grab just one leg of the stereo, and that apparently worked. (Could also have been crashing a wimpy headphone output by shorting L to R, or something weird like that).In that setting mono, or near mono would be my first choice.
A lot of modern stuff is mixed too wide particularly in the low end.
Or it contains out-of-polarity elements which have no L+R at all.
When mono'd they disappear.
I am looking for something "really" simple.. In the future I expect him to bring a mono, or at least mono compatible mix, with a robust send that can melt any funny loading . My L+R and L-R idea is probably too complicated for the situation. This is not rocket science and I think he just got a bad crew... (I talked to a sound guy friend who lives in the same state a few hours away, and said that he has heard horror stories about that venue.)The Studer 90° Filter is something that has piqued my interest: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1055
There was a sim of this circuit at GroupDIY: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62 ... #msg797074
The 90° filter might make a better mono than L+R.
I've heard a lot of stuff in background music situations recently that might have benefited from it.
The Width controller might be an option too. https://www.ka-electronics.com/kaelectr ... _Width.htm
They were feeding a midas digital console and had JBL line array, but apparently not enough "give a sh__" about the final sound result. The union pukes threatened my friend with fines and/or physical harm if he touched the midas console. (While I doubt that would have fixed his issues).
I told him if he gave me more than just 2 hours notice next time I could hook him up with real sound people in several states.
JR
PS: There are also commercial interfaces (like cute little baby DI boxes ) that accept 1/8" and feed 2x TRS phone or XLR, so probably not a unique occurrence for "whatever it takes" sound reinforcement.
Cancel the "cancel culture", do not support mob hatred.
- mediatechnology
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Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
I have a "mono" portable radio with a 3 conductor 1/8" connector.
When you plug a 3 conductor to RCA cable into and monitor the feed the polarity of Right is reversed from Left.
I'm not sure why it does this, but this radio would sound like crap in any venue if used as a "stereo" source.
When you plug a 3 conductor to RCA cable into and monitor the feed the polarity of Right is reversed from Left.
I'm not sure why it does this, but this radio would sound like crap in any venue if used as a "stereo" source.
Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
There were a few classic stories about mono compatibility... I forget the song, it may have been a Madonna song a few decades ago, but the "new" hip stereo effect was clearly not mono friendly . They released the recording and almost immediately got complaints from some mono AM radio stations (in Canada IIRC) playing the music that was clearly AFU. They quickly recalled and re-released the music without the bogus stereo efx.
Every serious recording console I ever designed had a mono switch...common practice back in the day to test mono compatibility. I even put a stereo/mono switch on my last phono preamp to appeal to professional broadcast customers (didn't help).
JR
Every serious recording console I ever designed had a mono switch...common practice back in the day to test mono compatibility. I even put a stereo/mono switch on my last phono preamp to appeal to professional broadcast customers (didn't help).
JR
Cancel the "cancel culture", do not support mob hatred.
Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
My old friend hasn't answered two of my inquiries about the mono compatibility of his backing tracks... That probably gives me my answer about the root cause of his problem.
JR
JR
Cancel the "cancel culture", do not support mob hatred.
Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
So many synth and piano samples don't work in mono, they have 'enhanced' stereo phase issues. You can't even pan them in slightly without them falling apart.
I remember a mastering session in which I'd done half a record, another studio the other half. One of the tracks from the other place had bass DI and bass mic which they'd hard panned opposite, and they were in a very bad phase relationship which collapsed in mono. That track got remixed.....
I remember a mastering session in which I'd done half a record, another studio the other half. One of the tracks from the other place had bass DI and bass mic which they'd hard panned opposite, and they were in a very bad phase relationship which collapsed in mono. That track got remixed.....
Best,
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
- mediatechnology
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Re: simple stereo extraction from L+R and L-R mid-side?
I keep hearing and reading that complaint. There's something odd in this track: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1007So many synth and piano samples don't work in mono, they have 'enhanced' stereo phase issues. You can't even pan them in slightly without them falling apart.