home improvement turns into science fair projects?

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terkio
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:01 pm

May be not that unreliable when I think of what geeks are capable in sound processing with powerfull microcontrollers that cost near nothing.
A challenge in sound recognition ( typo edited ), an artificial intelligence that is likely to come in our homes in the near future.
By the sound of the pump that will, of course be connected, Jeff Besos and Mark Zuckerberg will know before you, the time for a new pump.
Last edited by terkio on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JR.
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:41 pm

In no great surprise the fancy float switch does not work in a garbage can full of water either. I tried it in my shop with a lamp load and still no operation when holding the float assembly upside down to reflect high water.

I have sent an email to the manufacturer so we'll see where this goes... I would have taken it apart already if the float assembly didn't smell like stank from a few days under water in my crawl space.

so far I am resisting using a microprocessor for my own line cord current design but it would make managing things (like turning back on) a lot easier. Years ago I made a long timer with a 555 timer and 14 stage CMOS ripple counter. I could use a front panel pot to adjust sampling time, between minutes, hours, day?

JR
[edit- Its official I am completely seduced over to the dark (digital) side.... after soaking a discrete (including cmos logic) design in beer for less than a six pack, I give up... this needs to be microprocessor controlled. /edit]
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terkio
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:20 pm

Excuse me being pedantic, you need a microcontroller. The name given to a processor chip that includes RAM ROM and peripheral circuits like timers and I/O.

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JR.
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:29 pm

terkio wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:01 pm
May be not that unreliable when I think of what geeks are capable in sound processing with powerfull microcontrollers that cost near nothing.
A challenge in sound recognition ( typo edited ), an artificial intelligence that is likely to come in our homes in the near future.
By the sound of the pump that will, of course be connected, Jeff Besos and Mark Zuckerberg will know before you, the time for a new pump.
Actually that is a mature technology used for diagnosing potential future problems with rotating machinery... DSP analysis of sound signatures can detect problems long before they release smoke.... but... not ready for my crawlspace.

I have coded up a few DIY projects using micros that are close enough to repurpose. I was momentarily tempted to do it old school but nah.. if this, then that.... :lol: .

JR
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mediatechnology
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by mediatechnology » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:50 am

Looks like a job for an Arduino Nano board which cost about $2-3.
IDE is a free download.

I never believed that you would actually use a 555 and CMOS. :shock:
https://ka-electronics.com

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terkio
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by terkio » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:01 am

Arduino
Or a PIC.
Or a Orange Pi 0.
There are 20 alternatives to the Raspberry Pi.
Orange Pi, Banana Pi, and plenty more.

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:24 am

mediatechnology wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:50 am
Looks like a job for an Arduino Nano board which cost about $2-3.
IDE is a free download.

I never believed that you would actually use a 555 and CMOS. :shock:
I was resisting my knee-jerk tendency to use a micro solution for everything. Back in the 70s I recall designing a yogurt maker that required a several hour timer... I accomplished that with a 555 timer (then brand new and popular) and something like a 14 stage CMOS ripple counter (divider). The 555 was perhaps front of mind now because apparently my fancy float switch controller (that doesn't work) has a 555 timer inside to stay on for 10 seconds after water level drops. No I didn't take it apart yet, I saw advice about changing the delay time with a resistor value substitution.

Over the years I have designed two different microprocessor projects that involved timing and switching mains power... One a time of day thermostat for my back bedroom... I sensed room temperature from a diode junctions forward voltage drop, then used a triac to switch a baseboard resistance unit. I ultimately replaced that rube goldberg approach with a commercial TOD thermostat.

My second similar micro project was trying to make a slow cooker using Peltier heat transfer to cook food while cooling my kitchen.... I determined that Peltier technology is much better at making small objects very cold, rather than modest sized objects hot... In the course of making a slow cooker that worked, I substituted power resistors for the Peltier devices as heat sources. That too got replaced by a commercial slow cooker.

So I have two platforms and lots of code I could repurpose... For now my sump pump is back to manual control and the new improved high flow only takes minutes for what used to take ten times longer. Already cleared the overnight accumulation of water in < 5 minutes.

I would still like to find a reliable aftermarket float switch. I found a couple sump pumps with water level switches built in but they are both expensive well beyond my target price point.

JR
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mediatechnology
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by mediatechnology » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:51 am

I was resisting my knee-jerk tendency to use a micro solution for everything.
An amazing amount of restraint is being shown here people.

Fun with moisture detection and measurement.

When I was 7 or 8 Radio Shack was looking for ideas for Science Fair projects.
My project was a conductivity-based moisture detector using a plate with fingers, a transistor, battery and buzzer.
I submitted my "engineering drawings" to Radio Shack and a few weeks/months later received a rejection letter from the President of Radio Shack, Lewis Kornfeld.
I should probably scan and post some of my "earlier" work.

Fast-forward about 20 years and I found myself on the beach outside of Compass Point Studios in the Bahamas measuring soil conductivity with my Fluke meter.
As the island drained, from lack of rainfall for a few days, the studio's hum level would increase because its grounding system's impedance rose.
(Their "ground" is diatomaceous earth and when dry a very poor conductor.)
My measurements were cut short by studio staff who suggested that if I enjoyed life I might not want to be seen on a beach known for cocaine trafficking.

Getting back to your cybernetic controller:
Wouldn't you want to sequence blowers on after the pump stops?
Why not measure the impedance (using AC excitation) between two 60p nails stuck in the ground?
https://ka-electronics.com

Plandemic Series: "Pland3mic - Indoctornation" https://proaudiodesignforum.com/content ... nation.mp4
Plandemic Series: "Plandemic - Doctors In Black" https://proaudiodesignforum.com/content/Plandemic.mp4

CDC: "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death." https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm

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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:32 am

mediatechnology wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:51 am
I was resisting my knee-jerk tendency to use a micro solution for everything.
An amazing amount of restraint is being shown here people.

Fun with moisture detection and measurement.

When I was 7 or 8 Radio Shack was looking for ideas for Science Fair projects.
My project was a conductivity-based moisture detector using a plate with fingers, a transistor, battery and buzzer.
I submitted my "engineering drawings" to Radio Shack and a few weeks/months later received a rejection letter from the President of Radio Shack, Lewis Kornfeld.
For a year or more I was the guy at Peavey rejecting outside ideas... I don't think Hartley appreciated my 0% batting average, and found somebody less critical to review outside ideas.

FWIW I have a cheap soil moisture meter that I use for watering my trees/plants.

I should probably scan and post some of my "earlier" work.
I used to keep notebooks full of my crazy ideas. These days not so much, but i can't stop the ideas.

This weeks idea is figuring out how to use the temperature sensor in smart phones to monitor travellers from suspect regions for fever. I am not a fan of helping government surveil citizens, but this seems like a cheap "better than nothing" approach.
Fast-forward about 20 years and I found myself on the beach outside of Compass Point Studios in the Bahamas measuring soil conductivity with my Fluke meter.
As the island drained, from lack of rainfall for a few days, the studio's hum level would increase because its grounding system's impedance rose.
(Their "ground" is diatomaceous earth and when dry a very poor conductor.)
My measurements were cut short by studio staff who suggested that if I enjoyed life I might not want to be seen on a beach known for cocaine trafficking.
you could always pee on the ground rod... :lol:
Getting back to your cybernetic controller:
Wouldn't you want to sequence blowers on after the pump stops?
so far the water has not stopped... ground water is a chronic situation where I live.
Why not measure the impedance (using AC excitation) between two 60p nails stuck in the ground?
Physical water level "should" be easy..... The tethered float switch, "should" work but too long, and too heavy tether cable requires large water level shifts. I got it to work inside a large garbage can, but not down in my crawl space.

I am perhaps irrationally suspect of simple exposed float switches. like this Image
It looks too fragile to survive life in my crawlspace, but in hindsight I might be able to attach this to cold water main that enters the house in the same general area that should be stable. I worry that if attached to sump pump, the pump could tilt over and thwart the float operation.

My float switch that does not work, looks like the floats are well protected, inside a cage. Image
BUT IT DOESN'T WORK..... :oops: I still haven't heard back from the manufacturer.....

JR
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Re: home improvement turns into science fair projects?

Post by JR. » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:29 pm

I am rethinking my line cord current sense strategy with a bias toward KISS.... I can use the line cord current sense to automatically shut it off after it stops pulling water, without complicated decision making. Manual start, and automatic shut off seems practical.

Sensing line cord current to restart, is fine if pump is wet, but could be damaging to motors running dry. It seems a brief couple second test every few hours should be well tolerated, but probably only of modest utility.

The new pump flows well enough that starting it as needed seems adequate (and is much simpler).

JR

[edit I ordered a sense transformer so should stop raining right about now... :lol: /edit]
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