Entropy

Relax in southern comfort on the east bank of the Mississippi. You're just around the corner from Beale Street and Sun Records. Watch the ducks, throw back a few and tell us what's on your mind.
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terkio
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Re: Entropy

Post by terkio » Fri May 14, 2021 7:48 am

JR. wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:57 pm

The ground water level down in the crawl space was finally high enough to turn on the sump pump... I may revisit this weekend to reconsider the float threshold level a little lower. [/update]

JR
The lower the better. But....
1 When set too low, the pump might never stop because of loosing priming with water going low.
A smart system could be to detect cavitation as a signal that water has been pumped low enough, to turn the pump off, instead of the float low level signal.
2 When set too low debris under the float might make trouble. Here the strainer should prevent this trouble

Edit: Cavitation detection using an hydrophone and a spectrum analyser. This is an audio project.

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Fri May 14, 2021 8:07 am

terkio wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:48 am
JR. wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:57 pm

The ground water level down in the crawl space was finally high enough to turn on the sump pump... I may revisit this weekend to reconsider the float threshold level a little lower. [/update]

JR
The lower the better. But....
1 When set too low, the pump might never stop because of loosing priming with water going low.
yup, pump included advice against too low of a threshold, and I couldn't use the standard float switch attachment bracket. I suspect their advice is conservative so I might lower the threshold.
[/quote]
A smart system could be to detect cavitation as a signal that water has been pumped low enough, to turn the pump off, instead of the float low level signal.
[/quote]
I have a power meter and see a difference between pulling air and pulling water, but even my two pumps measure different enough to make a universal commercial solution. The float switch seems practical. The float assembly actually has two float switches inside, I guess in case the lower float is stuck in mud.
2 When set too low debris under the float might make trouble. Here the strainer should prevent this trouble
The float switch body is partially enclosed so somewhat protected. There isn't much debris floating around inside my crawl space. The water effectively percolates up from the ground. Today I will get my drop light down there so I can see clearly what is going on. Right now I have some bricks in the bottom off the well/hole. My neighbor had some flat tiles sitting loose in his yard that might get me another inch lower.

===

I still haven't taken my old pump apart, the Y driver bits arrived so time ago but I have more important projects on my list.

JR
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terkio
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Re: Entropy

Post by terkio » Fri May 14, 2021 1:23 pm

I have a power meter and see a difference between pulling air and pulling water
This could be a nice way to detect water low enough to turn the pump off.
Nice because this is free from float switch issues and keeps pumping at the lowest possible water level.
The float assembly actually has two float switches inside, I guess in case the lower float is stuck in mud.
How is high water level detected to turn the pump on ?
I imagine, the two float switches work this way: The low one stops pumping and the high one restarts pumping. A two state system with an appropriate hysteresis to avoid too frequent short cycles.

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JR.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Fri May 14, 2021 2:05 pm

terkio wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:23 pm
I have a power meter and see a difference between pulling air and pulling water
This could be a nice way to detect water low enough to turn the pump off.

The power difference with the old 1/2 hp pump was measurable but not as definitive as I would like. I don't have much measurement data from new 1/4 hp sump pump but oddly it looks like maybe higher (?) power draw than 1/2 hp pump.

Nice because this is free from float switch issues and keeps pumping at the lowest possible water level.
Somewhere I have a flow detector that I considered using as another time to shut off detector. Of course it does not tell me when to turn on. With a micro I could turn on briefly to sample for water present. If no water is present the interval could double every time until it only samples once a day... running dry for a couple seconds once a day should not harm the pump.
The float assembly actually has two float switches inside, I guess in case the lower float is stuck in mud.
How is high water level detected to turn the pump on ?
I imagine, the two float switches work this way: The low one stops pumping and the high one restarts pumping. A two state system with an appropriate hysteresis to avoid too frequent short cycles.
Logical but not how it works... the low float turns it on/off and the high float is some kind of a secondary back up in case the first one doesn't turn on. They have been making and selling these for decades so I ASSume they have a valid rationale for their design decisions.

This was working trouble free for over a year before the lightning damage. I am pretty close to getting this dialed in again.

The original sump when I bought this house had the pump sitting in a galvanized steel bucket... That bucket has since rusted out and been discarded.
In an ideal world the level detection would be incorporated inside the pump housing. I guess the concern about internal is that the works could get gummed up with mud or whatever. I can imagine a water proximity sensor that could be shielded from mud. The pump manufacturer could easily know load expectations etc.

Life is short, I am close to sticking a fork in this.

JR
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Tue May 18, 2021 11:10 am

I just did another power reset.... My direct TV DVR/receiver got stupid and was not recording shows it was programmed to.

I removed the power plug... it took a few minutes to download a clean operating system from the satellite and reset. It appears to be behaving now.

===

I am still dealing with squirrelly remote temp sensor. Once or twice before going to bed I noticed the outdoor temp was not displaying, so I removed and replaced the battery in the base station. It reacquired remote temp, and overnight updated time and date.

The other morning while it was working I tried temporarily lifting the battery in the remote to see if it would lose sync... oddly it did not, but I didn't remove the battery for very long.

JR
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Wed May 19, 2021 10:37 am

My replacement (plastic) watering can arrived... I determined the leak in my old one was not easily patchable (cracked along a seam). The new one is far superior, but still cheap blow mold technology so may last only another 15 years.
======
Still making sawdust and smoke in the yard today but I notice my sump pump has fallen over again. Now that I have the short bricks I am thinking of moving the well (depression dug in the sand floor) over closer to the plumbing water inlet line so I can support the pump with the nearby water pipe using a bent coat hanger. The added back flow check valve, and heavier outlet hose makes the pump top heavy. so harder to keep it standing straight up.

JR
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Fri May 21, 2021 10:46 am

JR. wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:40 pm
I just used the last two iron on patches to repair my pants of many colors.

Image

There is now one more color, a very dark blue bridging across the red to the light blue patch on the outside, and a another vertical patch on the inside. I have low expectations for the longevity of this particular pair of jeans.

After this attempt they go into the trash bin, next time they tear...

JR

[edit- OK for now but I can already see where the next three tears are going to be.... /edit]
Time for an update... These iron on patches kept my worst pair of jeans out of the garbage bin for several weeks. Today I just noticed a new tear in the opposite leg (probably from resting heavy logs on my legs while lifting them on top of the fire...).

My evaluation is that the iron-on patches work well for minor tears in reasonably stable material. The iron-on patches on my recliner seat cushion are still holding strong. My pants of many colors are about ready to stick a fork in. :lol:

JR
[update- gave these pants a viking funeral on my burn pile /update]
Last edited by JR. on Mon May 24, 2021 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mediatechnology
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Re: Entropy

Post by mediatechnology » Sat May 22, 2021 6:10 am

Sink repair done - needed to also replace the O-rings.
Pfister won't tell you what size they are so I had to match them up.
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sat May 22, 2021 12:58 pm

good job.... I wonder how long before those smart faucets that you talk to and tell it temperature and how much, start to fail. :lol:

JR
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Re: Entropy

Post by JR. » Sat May 22, 2021 5:29 pm

Today after I finished making sawdust and CO2 in my yard I decided to reset the sump pump down in the crawl space,,, It had tilted over again. :oops:

I plugged in a drop light so I could see what was going on down there. It appears that there were a few real bricks set into the sand at the bottom of the sump well. So the pump had a good base to sit on, but I needed to secure it to prevent it tilting over. My new plan was to bend up a steel coat hanger to hook onto the water pipe nearby and hold the sump pump upright...

It now looks good to me, I was almost tempted to run my garden hose down there to check it out, but that would just be wrong. :lol:

In my experience it often rains in MS, but weather report is not promising much for next week or so...

JR
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